Should we hold back a 5 year old for another year in Gan?

Following is a recent (Jan '06) discussion from the NBN yahoo list.

Opening Post to List

Subject: Holding our daughter back a year
We made aliyah on the Dec. 27/28 flight. Our dauthers are 3 and 5 and currently flourishing in gan. Today, however, the ganenet (sp?) asked us what our plans were for our 5-year-old for next school year. Because our daughter doesn't know Hebrew yet, the teacher suggested holding her back a year. Instead of starting Kita Alef in the fall, she would remain in Gan Chova. We're not opposed to this idea, but wanted some feedback about this idea and what our options might be. (Should we hire a tutor now? Is it too early to even worry about this? Is the teacher perhaps inexperienced with new olim and not know that our dauther will be fluent by Pesach, as everyone suggests? Or, is there really no harm in holding her back?)

Our daughter is very smart and very verbal, in English at least. She has already begun to read in English. But she's also very small for her age, so physically, she'd be OK to stay back. In Israel, if she were held back but then caught up, would she then be able to skip a grade so that she'd be with her real peers, agewise? (Are we asking for bureaucratic headaches by even thinking of that?) Also, we might have the option of sending our kids to the dati school in Mazkeret Batya (if we can get them to take us), or to Shelavim, which is a 50-minute bus ride each way but is the school for the moshav where we live. Does anyone know what Shelavim has to offer anglo students overall?

thanks and Shabbat shalom,
Alison & Stephen Epstein
Toronto to Yatzitz (Dec 05)

RESPONSES

Subject: Re: [nefeshbnefesh] Holding our daughter back a year
I don't know about the schools you are asking about, but I can share our five year old's experience. B"H, since our arrival in August our five year old's Hebrew has blossomed. He really understands alot now and can communicate socially in Hebrew quite nicely. He still doesn't get everything they say in the mifgash, but he is progressing quite nicely. By the way, we are in Gush Etzion, and our 5 year old is in the Mechinah (gan chovah) of Orot Etzion, where they learn to read at 5- from what I understand in most of the ganei chovah in Israel it is not the norm to learn to read (usually it is taught in first grade). However, for whatever it's worth, not being a Hebrew speaker at the beginning of the year had absolutely no negative impact on our son's ability to keep up (even though he is relatively young for his grade, birthday in mid-October)- he is reading fluently thank God and is keeping up with the class very well.

I don't see why your daughter shouldn't move on to first grade with her peers-- even if her Hebrew isn't great yet, why should it be any different than any olah chadasha entering first grade (and she'll have the head start of half a year of exposure to Hebrew). Hatzlachah rabbah- if you have any questions, I'll be glad to speak/write more-- just email me off list and we can connect.

Shavua tov,
Dassi Jacobson
NY-Neve Daniel, 8/05

Subject: Re: Holding our daughter back a year
We made aliyah in August 2005 and have 2 boys ages 4 and 6. At first we sent the 6 year old to a really bad school (1st grade inmamlachti dati torani) without any tutoring and he really wasn't learning a thing, including Hebrew. He also didn't get any ulpan due to some problem with the city (all the kids didn't) even though he is entitled. Some people suggested that we put him back in Gan (such as Gan Safa - special for Hebrew learning, or Gan Barkai - which uses a different teaching method than most) so he can learn Hebrew without the pressure of the school, and got to first garde next year. I wasn't very fond of the idea for a variety of reasons and decided to explorer other options first and leave the Gan is a last resort. We switched him to a different school (a private one - Talmud Torah Moriah in Ramat Bet Shemesh) which is a lot better tahn where he was and the teachers don't push new olim very hard plus spend a little extra time to explain the child who doesn't know the language what's going on. Also we hired a private tutor 4 times a week, 2 hours per day, outside of the school. It's a lot of tutoring and your child may not need nearly as much.

Our son is doing great now. He has been in tutoring and the new school for 2 months and he already learned a lot of Hebrew, can read really well, write and is beginning to speak both with kids and teachers. The tutor is awesome. She is Israeli and speaks very little English which actually helps my son, because he feels like he has to speak in Hebrew with her. If he says something to her in English she understands, but responds in Hebrew. Sometimes he would draw pictures for her and she would for him in order to understand. He views it as fun so that helps too. She works with him on Hebrew and Math together. Also, she calls up the teachers and discusses with them how he does in class and gives some suggestions on how to help him or tells him what he knows so that they will make sure he participates. The school agreed for the tutor to come to school and pull him out of class while she is there. We did that for a while, but there were too many distractions in the school so now I drive him to her house where it's nice and quiet. Our son loves the school and the tutor, so even though it's a lot of work for him he seems to be verry happy and engaged. We plan to reduce the tutoring amount gradually as he picks up more Hebrew.

By the way, our son actually did have speech delays in English when he was younger, so for a child who was without any issues, I would assume they should need a lot less tutoring. The trick is to find the right school and the right tutor (if you can afford). We pay 100 shekels for 2 hours of tutoring, which is actually really cheap. And if she comes to the school then I also pay either for the cab fare or the bus, because she doesn't have a car. I think the average going rate is about 50-60 shekels per hour for a younger child, but it's increasing. Also, if you need so many hours per week as we do, it should be reasonable to negotiate a lower end rate, as opposed to if yuou need just 1 or 2 hours a week when you would pay the higher end rate. If anyone is looking for a great tutor in the Bet Shemesh area our tutor's name is Nehama and her number is 052-688-2803. She lives in Moshav Eshtaol which is on Road 38 right before Bet Shemesh Center across from the Sonol gas station. Our younger son who just turned 4 doesn't go anywhere yet, but will go to Gan starting next year and I plan to send him to the same tutor as well, although for a lot less hours.

As far as staying in a grade behind, I heard that many peope do it in Israel (not just olim) and it's not as weird as it is in the US. I don't know what it would take to skip a grade, although it seems that since it's a lot more accepted then it's also harder to skip a grade. I have checked out a lot of school aroudn here in the past few months and found that all of the public ones are really not flexible or overcrowded and don't even want to talk to you at all. Demanding some kind of services (even the ones you're entitled to like Ulpan) from the Machleket HaHinuch (the school district) is like talking to a brick wall, so I wouldn't even bother wasting time (although many people urged us to just keep pushing and pushing). Personally I would rather spend a little money and get what my kid needs right awy in a nice fashion than trying to kill myself fighting with the gov't and waste time while my kid falls more behind. The private ones that have room are a lot more flexible and are willing tow ork with you a lot more. But you need to find the right kind for your kid. If you have any questions feel free to call me at 054-788-7017.

Eli
NBN Baltimore -> RBS August 2005

Subject: Re: [nefeshbnefesh] Holding our daughter back a year
DON'T let them hold your daughter back! [1] why assume that she will have such overwhelming problems in first grade without at least TRYING it? [2] consider a tutor of course, BUT how about putting her in a day camp over the summer where she is only in a Hebrew speaking environment? [3] kids pick up languages amazingly fast at that age. I am one of many examples. Have no fear, by the end of a few months, she will be fine in first grade!

Rochelle
Balt. - Yerushalayim 2004

Subject: re: Holding our daughter back a year
Regarding whether to have a 5 year old repeat gan chova because she just arrived - (a) It depends when her birthday is relative to the cutoff (you didn't mention her birthday but it happens that some schools have earlier cutoffs than December anyway you'll have to check locally) - within a month is close, three months isn't so close (b) It depends how she is academically, socially, emotionally in a general sense - I believe you can actually get a free evaluation through the school at the end of the school year (c) It depends upon how she's adapting and acclimating - which I agree with you is better evaluated at a later time If you have no major indicators to keep her back, I would think it's best delaying such a move until the end of the school year or even the summer. Especially if it would be more difficult to obtain a "late" registration for her as a first grader than in gan chova ( i.e. if you would change your mind at that point). Last, because she arrived in late December, it could be that her first grade school would give her some "oleh" support services as well. (By the way we came with our daughters ages 4 and 6 in July and now they're speaking and comprehending Hebrew - at this point it's mostly dependent upon their vocabulary which will take much longer to build up.)

Best of luck - and welcome!
Ellen Solomon
NYC->RBS 2005

Subject: Re: [nefeshbnefesh] Holding our daughter back a year
We are going through the EXACT same issue. It has been suggested to us that our 5-year old daughter might also benefit from being held back one year. I've seen that it's a fairly common practice for new English-speaking Olim. People often tell you that children of this age will just pick up the Hebrew & will be fluent by Pesach, but unforutnately, this is just not true. Every child is different, and yes, some pick up Hebrew very quickly while others do not. Not every child has a head for languages. Personally, I'd much rather hold my duaghter back in Kindergarten, giving her an extra year to learn, than to have her in 1st grade (which is much more academic) & continue to be behind & struggle. The teachers expect their 1st graders to be able to follow instructions in Ivrit. It is not too early for you to be thinking of this. We are half-way through the school year already. It is absolutely worth it for you to hold her back rather than risk her struggling in Kita Alef. A private tutor would probably help, combined with integrating some Hebrew in the home (books, music, DVD's, etc..) but you should still not expect your daughter to be fluent by Pesach. Some teachers have told us that it takes many Olim children almost a year, sometimes longer, to become fluent in Hebrew. Because it is common (for Olim to be held back a year), I wouldn't worry about her making friends, especially if she's small for her age (as our daughter is, too). Good luck!

Chaya & Shmuel NBN Sept. '05
TX - Modiin

Subject: Re: [nefeshbnefesh] Holding our daughter back a year
hi i was told to keep my son backand not put him in kita aleph. he had spent 2yrs in jk and sk and is so ready for learning and gan here is not academic and i regret every minute of it. it is worth going through the academic test they want i think i have made a huge mistake.

nicky halpert, nbn 05
toronto-hashmonaim

Re: Holding our daughter back a year
Unless your child has a learning issue that might support keeping them back, I don't reccomend it. Our (7) kids are doing well - the oldest 3 knew some Hebrew from before, but even our dyslexic fifth grader is flourishing. As long as there's a lot of understanding from the parents and support from the school, it'll go well.

tuvya marcus
baltimore - har nof, aug. '05

Subject: Re: [nefeshbnefesh] Re: Holding our daughter back a year
Holding kids back a year in Kindergarten is/was extremely common in the US as well as in Israel. Low expectations on the part of teachers who may be prejudiced against new olim &/or do not want to exert themselves beyond the daily routine should not doom your child to repeat kindergarten if he/she is ready for first grade otherwise. Such a decision, IMHO, should NOT be based upon a new oleh's language difficulties as much as on issues such as the child's maturity, intellectual development, and readiness for the next stage of learning. Chas v'chalila, your child should be stultified, held back when he/she needs to learn more, and is sitting bored in class, and having to associate with less mature children when he/she really needs to be at the first grade level. Is it not better to invest in a tutor rather than keep the child back for no other reason? I can personally assure you all that is a RARE child of 6 who does not pick up the new host language quickly.

I personally know many dozens of immigrants to Israel and the US who came to first grade as I did speaking a foreign language, Our parents had to fight for us to start at grade level, begged the school officials to at least let us TRY. We all succeeded. We all went on to great success in our future lives. The dire predictions requiring leaving a kid back to repeat kindergarten are laughable. The first English word that I truly understood was the word Tuesday and that was already in the month of November. But by HS, I had skipped a grade and was one of the top math students in NYC, in spite of starting first grade in the US without 1 word of English. I had so many friends and acquaintances in similar language situations who were not brilliant in math but none of us suffered by being at grade level rather than held back. And this was without any tutoring because our parents were too poor to afford that. Absorbing a new language as a child of that age is simply not so overwhelming an obstacle as to demand they be placed at a truly inappropriate grade level for their intellectual development. In Israel particularly, where kids do not even start college until they are 2 or more years post-HS, why add another year onto their finishing HS?

Rochelle
Balt --> Yerushalayim 2004

Subject: RE: [nefeshbnefesh] Re: Holding our daughter back a year
I have been following this thread with some interest and finally, feel compelled to share two of my experiences with the list. The first experience is really that of my parents, when I was young. I wear hearing aids and have done so since age four. From age four until age eight I attended, in addition to regular school, speech therapy. I began by attending 4 days a week, and each year that reduced by a day per week until finally at age 8 I went only once a week. I was being taught to speak using a radical (for that time) method. A language called ITA (Initial Teaching Alphabet) was being used. It is an alphabet in which there are significantly more letters in the alphabet than the 26 we normally use. It is a phonetic language and there is a letter for every sound used in the English language. ITA was initially developed to be used as a teaching tool for teaching children to read, not to speak. However, due it's phonetic device, it sufficed admirably as a tool to teach hearing impaired children to speak.

When I was five, I entered kindergarten. At that time, kindergarten had a reading program, but I was not required to be in it. It was thought (erroneously) that I would become confused between the two "langauages" -- English and ITA. So, I became dependent in that class on the teacher to tell me where things were if they were labeled and I was not taught to read them. (I probably could read them but had been told that I could not and so believed them!). When I was six, I was to enter first grade. At first, the school balked and wanted to put me in a special education class. My parents conferred with Dr. Duffy, who was my specialist and he adamantly insisted that I be placed in a regular classroom. My parents and the school complied. (It was much easier then to place a kid with a disability in a regular classroom. The word 'mainstream' had not yet come into the usage which means putting a disabled child in a classroom with non disabled kids. The schools were not receiving funding for disabled children and had no fiduciary interest in building up their rolls of disabled students.) Once in first grade I was put into the slowest reading group on the first day of school. I was moved up one level on the second day. I was moved up another level on the third day. This continued until I reach high honors level, where I remained. I HAD NO TROUBLE READING ENGLISH!!!

(Addendum to this story: I lived in Israel for two years in the late seventies. I was told that I could never learn a foreign language due to my disability. I therefore had received a waiver from learning one when I was in HS. After taking ulpan for 9 months I returned to the US. I then went to my HS and requested that I be given a four year Hebrew regents test. After some initial resistance, they complied. I took the test and received a grade of 98% on it!).

The second experience regards my daughter. When she was young I had her enrolled in a private school from pre-K through Kindergarten. In the kindergarten class the method of teaching was really a self determined learning. The classroom had various areas set up that had tools and books etc. for the student to use to learn different subjects. At the beginning of the year each student would be introduced to each of the areas and told they were to spend part of their time each week in every area. Well, my daughter spent her time in the areas she enjoyed and excelled at, and avoided those which challenged her more. This continued for the entire year, without my knowledge! No teacher ever spoke to me about it. At the end of the year it was recommended she be held back. I was puzzled and inquired as to why. When the above information was then given to me I was understandably upset. I took the school to task for not having communicated with me and involved me in this. I also realized my daughter would need a more structured environment to learn in. I took her out of this school and enrolled her in a different school - in first grade - where she flourished. (She lives in Israel now, learning at ulpan and hoping to attend Shenkar in the fall to study graphic design).

Children can learn multiple languages simultaneously. It is a good thing, not a bad thing, and should be encouraged. Schools do not always know what is best for a student and it is the job of the parents to be their childs best advocates. B'hatzlacha on your job...

Rachel Stern
(in Teaneck, NJ, anxiously awaiting either Moshiach or the day we make aliyah, I"YH)

Subject: Re: Holding our daughter back a year
I agree that holding your daughter back because of her Hebrew skill level is not the best decision. We made aliyah July 2005 and our 6 year old daughter went straight to kita aleph, as she would be going to first grade if we were in the US. She had a hard time at first and complained of being bored because she didn't understand anything, but now she can understand her lessons and converse with her peers and has friends - Israelis - who mutually call each other "best friends".

My daughter has the advantage of going to a gov. sponsored ulpan here in Modiin twice a week. Just one of the things I love about Modiin. And, at the suggestion of my daughter's teacher we enlisted the help of a private tutor twice a week. Certainly the Hebrew presents a challenge, but you can overcome it and your daughter will do fine. Plus, keeping her back a year may present a problem later on as she will be more socially developed than her peers.

Gayle Greenzaid
Virginia Beach, VA to Mevesseret to Modiin (finally!)